9.16.2557
What's the difference between strong friendship and romantic love?
What's the difference between strong friendship and romantic love?
When I have strong feelings for people, I have a very difficult time determining whether I am interested in them as a romantic partner or not. I feel drawn to spending as much time with them as possible, I think about them a lot, their happiness is extremely important to me and their emotions have a strong impact on mine, I want to us to be extremely important in eachothers' lives, I hope to have them in my life permanently. This feeling of being drawn to the person happens both in the context of crushes on new acquaintances as well as with long-standing friends (and with both men and women)-- obviously in a more substantial way with friends.
Becoming a romantic couple with these people seems appealing to me because I like the idea of having a beloved partner at my side and promising to center our lives around eachother-- but for me, this desire does not seem qualitatively different from the feelings towards other good friends, only quantitatively, a matter of degree and intensity. In other words, I would want to marry my best friend because they're my best friend.
I think part of the challenge for me is that, while I wouldn't say I'm completely asexual, I am definitely towards that end of the spectrum. I don't really feel sexual attraction or pull towards anyone. The idea of holding hands, cuddling, kissing, etc with people I am emotionally attracted to is very appealing, but more because of intimacy than lust. I am sexually active with partners, but mostly because that's important to them and I want them to be happy. (I'm female and in my mid-20s, by the way.)
As a result, I find myself with a lot of confusion. The kind of love I feel for my boyfriend of 2 years does not seem very different from the way I feel towards a couple of my other very dear friends-- I ask myself, am I romantically drawn to all of them? None of them? Is there a different kind of love feeling out that will feel very different but I won't know until I find it?
So what I'm asking you is, other than the sexual aspect, is there a difference between intense, intimate friendships and romantic relationships? If so, how would you describe it?
Other than the sexual aspect, I don't think there necessarily has to be a big difference between intimate friendships and romantic relationships. Some people approach these categories in a way that creates a difference, but this is a personal choice. You might choose to share certain things (discussing certain topics, watching sports, finances, a house) with only friends or only romantic interests, or you might not.
To a certain extent, the labels of "friendship" and "romantic" are shorthand markers for other people to understand your life. Don't feel that you must define your relationships with people according to labels, but use them if they are useful to you.
posted by yohko at 10:35 AM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
To a certain extent, the labels of "friendship" and "romantic" are shorthand markers for other people to understand your life. Don't feel that you must define your relationships with people according to labels, but use them if they are useful to you.
posted by yohko at 10:35 AM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'd say the dividing line of these two things can be determined by asking yourself whether you want to kiss someone you're close to, like on the mouth. Answering no means platonic friend. Answering yes means romantic friend.
posted by poppo at 11:00 AM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by poppo at 11:00 AM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
well, in many ways the distinctions are artificial, but with romantic love, there is generally a strong friendship plus sexual intimacy as well as (eventually) a lifelong commitment to sharing a home and life, and often parenting.
it's not uncommon for couples to face imbalances of libido. although i don't think it's "unnatural" not to have a libido, it might be worth checking with your doctor to make sure everything's working the way it's supposed to. if so, do a head check and see if there isn't any unaddressed depression or anxiety. you might examine your sexuality in greater depth, and make sure you are not suppressing an attraction to the other gender.
assuming none of these are issues, then you probably just have a low sex drive. i wouldn't worry about it unless you find yourself really compromising yourself or feeling violated when you agree to sexual activity. you may wish to experiment with your sweetie and find things you are comfortable with that will satisfy him. and don't be afraid to see a couples counselor, either.
posted by thinkingwoman at 11:15 AM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
it's not uncommon for couples to face imbalances of libido. although i don't think it's "unnatural" not to have a libido, it might be worth checking with your doctor to make sure everything's working the way it's supposed to. if so, do a head check and see if there isn't any unaddressed depression or anxiety. you might examine your sexuality in greater depth, and make sure you are not suppressing an attraction to the other gender.
assuming none of these are issues, then you probably just have a low sex drive. i wouldn't worry about it unless you find yourself really compromising yourself or feeling violated when you agree to sexual activity. you may wish to experiment with your sweetie and find things you are comfortable with that will satisfy him. and don't be afraid to see a couples counselor, either.
posted by thinkingwoman at 11:15 AM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Maybe there's a difference. I'd say that most people I know behave as if those two states are quite different. But I think I agree with the previous comments as to why this is the case.
My situation is strikingly similar to yours, emotionally (though I'm not dating, am far from asexual, and have always been one variant or another of bisexual). I love a certain group of people deeply, but I don't think I've really had the emotional experiences my friends describe, when they talk about being in love. Instead, they've been largely similar to your feelings toward your boyfriend and close friends.
Some people form different types of relationships in line with labelling conventions (which is fine by me), and some people don't or can't. Either seems acceptable.
Many of my close friends have these types of feelings regarding love vs. friendship, I've noticed. Several of the relationships between people in my friends group fall into very gray areas when viewed from the outside, and people describe the participants as "confused" or whatever, but the confusion level is typically very low.
This is the first comment I've made here, and I had to because your situation resonated with me bigtime. If you ever feel like thought-exchanging on this sort of thing, get my email from my profile.
posted by Coatlicue at 11:16 AM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
My situation is strikingly similar to yours, emotionally (though I'm not dating, am far from asexual, and have always been one variant or another of bisexual). I love a certain group of people deeply, but I don't think I've really had the emotional experiences my friends describe, when they talk about being in love. Instead, they've been largely similar to your feelings toward your boyfriend and close friends.
Some people form different types of relationships in line with labelling conventions (which is fine by me), and some people don't or can't. Either seems acceptable.
Many of my close friends have these types of feelings regarding love vs. friendship, I've noticed. Several of the relationships between people in my friends group fall into very gray areas when viewed from the outside, and people describe the participants as "confused" or whatever, but the confusion level is typically very low.
This is the first comment I've made here, and I had to because your situation resonated with me bigtime. If you ever feel like thought-exchanging on this sort of thing, get my email from my profile.
posted by Coatlicue at 11:16 AM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Eros.
While love between friends is a mutual, self-sacrificing arrangement, agape, romantic love includes an element of self-serving love as well, eros. Romantic love includes the desire to receive love back from the other in a way that does not involve a mutual arrangement or sacrifice of the self.
In other words friendship would be a "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine." Romantic love would be more like "I'll scratch your back, if you blow me."
posted by Pollomacho at 11:46 AM on August 20, 2007 [14 favorites]
While love between friends is a mutual, self-sacrificing arrangement, agape, romantic love includes an element of self-serving love as well, eros. Romantic love includes the desire to receive love back from the other in a way that does not involve a mutual arrangement or sacrifice of the self.
In other words friendship would be a "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine." Romantic love would be more like "I'll scratch your back, if you blow me."
posted by Pollomacho at 11:46 AM on August 20, 2007 [14 favorites]
The grey areas in relationships tend to make people uncomfortable from an outside perspective--categories allow folks to understand situations neatly and not have to think too hard.
Saturday night, I was at a concert with a good friend of the opposite sex. People did not seem to understand--despite assurances from both of us--that we were not a couple. That we were openly affectionate with each other only confounded them more. But that is the nature of our friendship--both of us fully aware that the things that draw us together ultimately make us completely incompatible romantically. We're okay with that.
My point here is that your relationships are yours to define, no one else's. If you want to explore different avenues of intimacy with someone, all you need do is ask and try. If it works, swell. If not, life goes on. The details and distinctions do not really matter.
posted by gsh at 12:03 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Saturday night, I was at a concert with a good friend of the opposite sex. People did not seem to understand--despite assurances from both of us--that we were not a couple. That we were openly affectionate with each other only confounded them more. But that is the nature of our friendship--both of us fully aware that the things that draw us together ultimately make us completely incompatible romantically. We're okay with that.
My point here is that your relationships are yours to define, no one else's. If you want to explore different avenues of intimacy with someone, all you need do is ask and try. If it works, swell. If not, life goes on. The details and distinctions do not really matter.
posted by gsh at 12:03 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't expect non-romantic friends to ever identify as part of a unit with me. When I'm involved in a serious romantic relationship, I do.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 12:03 PM on August 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by solipsophistocracy at 12:03 PM on August 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
I ask myself this question all the time, mostly in the context of why I want to have a "romantic" relationship with some people and a "friends" / "friends with benefits" relationship with others. I have no idea, despite frequent heart- and soul-searching, what happens when my feelings change from non-romantic to romantic, nor why it happens in some circumstances and not in others.
For example: I have a "friends" relationship with J. I love him dearly and can't imagine my life without him. He's incredibly important to me and I would be devastated if something were to separate us emotionally. Although he's a very attractive man, at no point in our friendship have I ever wanted to have sex with him, nor have I ever wanted to create a romantic relationship with him. We are and have always been "just" friends.
I have had a "friends-with-benefits" relationship with R. I feel emotionally for him the same way I feel for J., with the added feeling of being very sexually attracted to him. Even so, I have never wanted to create a romantic relationship with him. We are and have always been "just" friends who (used to, before he met his girlfriend) have sex from time to time.
I had a "romantic" relationship with my ex-husband. Everything I feel for R., I felt with him: deep emotional intimacy, sexual attraction, and a desire to spend as much time as possible with him. But there was something else, too, that made me classify my feelings for him as "romantic" rather than "friends" or "friends with benefits." To this day, I can't explain why that feeling occured with him and not with J. or R. It just existed that way, incredibly and wonderfully different from the way I felt for any of the other important people in my life.
It drives my analytical mind absolutely batshit crazy to think that the difference between these feelings is something that will always be inexplicable, and I hate the idea that I will live the rest of my life never being able to explain what it is. But maybe that's the whole point: maybe being "in love" is an uncategorizeable, inexplicable maelstrom of feelings, and maybe the difference of it from other forms of emotional intimacy really is something that you'll know only when you encounter it.
posted by jesourie at 12:38 PM on August 20, 2007 [5 favorites]
For example: I have a "friends" relationship with J. I love him dearly and can't imagine my life without him. He's incredibly important to me and I would be devastated if something were to separate us emotionally. Although he's a very attractive man, at no point in our friendship have I ever wanted to have sex with him, nor have I ever wanted to create a romantic relationship with him. We are and have always been "just" friends.
I have had a "friends-with-benefits" relationship with R. I feel emotionally for him the same way I feel for J., with the added feeling of being very sexually attracted to him. Even so, I have never wanted to create a romantic relationship with him. We are and have always been "just" friends who (used to, before he met his girlfriend) have sex from time to time.
I had a "romantic" relationship with my ex-husband. Everything I feel for R., I felt with him: deep emotional intimacy, sexual attraction, and a desire to spend as much time as possible with him. But there was something else, too, that made me classify my feelings for him as "romantic" rather than "friends" or "friends with benefits." To this day, I can't explain why that feeling occured with him and not with J. or R. It just existed that way, incredibly and wonderfully different from the way I felt for any of the other important people in my life.
It drives my analytical mind absolutely batshit crazy to think that the difference between these feelings is something that will always be inexplicable, and I hate the idea that I will live the rest of my life never being able to explain what it is. But maybe that's the whole point: maybe being "in love" is an uncategorizeable, inexplicable maelstrom of feelings, and maybe the difference of it from other forms of emotional intimacy really is something that you'll know only when you encounter it.
posted by jesourie at 12:38 PM on August 20, 2007 [5 favorites]
My partner is, without question, my best and most intimate friend, totally outside of my romantic love for him. While I have other very warm, very emotionally intimate friendships, this one is deeper than those by leaps and bounds, probably because of the other kinds of intimacy we also share.
We have attraction and sexual intimacy on top of that too, sure, but there's another aspect as well. I'm with solipsophistocracy with that "part of a unit" thing. For me, that feeling started for form after that initial rush of love/lust faded. It's the feeling of a real commitment to not just my life, but our life, and the unit that we are together. I've never felt that to any friend, no matter how intimate.
posted by mostlymartha at 12:38 PM on August 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
We have attraction and sexual intimacy on top of that too, sure, but there's another aspect as well. I'm with solipsophistocracy with that "part of a unit" thing. For me, that feeling started for form after that initial rush of love/lust faded. It's the feeling of a real commitment to not just my life, but our life, and the unit that we are together. I've never felt that to any friend, no matter how intimate.
posted by mostlymartha at 12:38 PM on August 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
Exclusivity is the defining feature of romantic love. The feelings you share for each other are not shared for anyone else. The vulnerability you have with each other is unmatched in any of your other relationships. It's a more wrenchingly involved experience than platonic love -- more wonderful, less fun.
When you friends go away for a week do you die a little inside?
posted by bluenausea at 12:40 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
When you friends go away for a week do you die a little inside?
posted by bluenausea at 12:40 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
There may not be that much difference between how you feel about your friends and how you feel about your romantic partners. Maybe the difference is in your actions. With romantic partners, there is an element of exclusivity - even if you're not strictly monogamous. There is a continued need to compromise. You pool your resources. If it's serious, you have joint finances, you live in a house together, you maybe get married, have kids. These actions greatly affect your life. And maybe the actions, if you take them, if you care enough about the person you're romantically involved with to take them, are what makes the relationship different. And when you realize that you have someone who is there for you, who has committed his/her life to you, even if only through the hard-to-disentangle actions of living together and creating a family, well, maybe then you will feel how a romantic relationship is different. I'm just saying - that might be how it works, rather than blinding passion first, creating a life together second.
posted by fugitivefromchaingang at 12:56 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by fugitivefromchaingang at 12:56 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
For a long time, I thought there wasn't any difference. There were people that I loved, to varying degrees, and some of them I also felt sexually attracted to.
Then I met my soulmate. With him, it's different. There's an 'us' in a way there isn't with any other relationship in my life. If either of us were unable to have sex, we'd still spend the rest of our lives together. We understand each other. We mirror each other. I can't find the words to explain it. But it's different.
posted by happyturtle at 1:08 PM on August 20, 2007 [7 favorites]
Then I met my soulmate. With him, it's different. There's an 'us' in a way there isn't with any other relationship in my life. If either of us were unable to have sex, we'd still spend the rest of our lives together. We understand each other. We mirror each other. I can't find the words to explain it. But it's different.
posted by happyturtle at 1:08 PM on August 20, 2007 [7 favorites]
You might find this old MetaFilter discussion of Boston marriages interesting.
posted by paduasoy at 2:07 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by paduasoy at 2:07 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
I've wondered about some of these questions before, too. I managed to fall in love with my best friend some years back, but the transition to thinking about it that way was both unexpected and confusing. I spent a long time telling myself that it was just a really intense friendship before I managed to admit to myself that my feelings for him were something more. How I knew that is really tough to put into words, but I'd agree with what a lot of people here have said; it's a sense of wanting there to be an "us," as such, as distinct from any of the other relationships in either of our lives. And while I don't generally think of jealosy as been a positive thing, some small element of jealousy seems to be one of the differences between romantic and platonic love. It always hurts when a friendship changes, but if the idea of that person having a romantic relationship with anyone else absolutely crushes you beyond what seems reasonable, maybe that's a good indicator that you feel something for them beyond just friendship.
posted by you're a kitty! at 4:32 PM on August 20, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by you're a kitty! at 4:32 PM on August 20, 2007 [4 favorites]
Friends last. Romantic love, not so much.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:02 PM on August 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:02 PM on August 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
the only difference to me is that he's my best friend and he makes me all tingly when i think of him/see him/get a note or a voicemail from him. i have always, not intentionally but inevitably, wound up romantically involved with people i enjoyed being friendly with first. i can't imagine being serious with someone and not being able to talk with them as a close friend. i know that's not everyone's cup of tea or approach, which is fine by me, but you did ask for individual, idiosyncratic responses...for what it's worth, all of my buddies are the same way about it. having a hot affair with some strange distant person is unrealistic and best left to absurd (but maybe fun in its absurdity) fantasy for us.
on the other hand, i have friends i could not in a million years imagine being sexually attracted to, and would thus never become romantically involved with. the close friendship is a necessary but not sufficient on its own criteria for a romantic partner. sexual chemistry is important to me, very very important, which took me way too long to figure out. but now that i understand it and have both requisites i am a happy woman indeed. seriously, sometimes i feel like swooning just thinking about hot my boyfriend is. it's totally unfair and vague and enduring, that physical chemistry aspect, but it shouldn't be ignored, methinks. (shrug)
and sometimes all i want to do is stay up til 4 talking to him about books and places to travel to and the silly details of our work day. i need both to be happy in a romantic relationship, and i bet a lot of people are the same way.
posted by ifjuly at 7:53 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
on the other hand, i have friends i could not in a million years imagine being sexually attracted to, and would thus never become romantically involved with. the close friendship is a necessary but not sufficient on its own criteria for a romantic partner. sexual chemistry is important to me, very very important, which took me way too long to figure out. but now that i understand it and have both requisites i am a happy woman indeed. seriously, sometimes i feel like swooning just thinking about hot my boyfriend is. it's totally unfair and vague and enduring, that physical chemistry aspect, but it shouldn't be ignored, methinks. (shrug)
and sometimes all i want to do is stay up til 4 talking to him about books and places to travel to and the silly details of our work day. i need both to be happy in a romantic relationship, and i bet a lot of people are the same way.
posted by ifjuly at 7:53 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
For me there is no, and I mean no difference. However, for my friends, there is, and that has affected how I act towards them. In other words, I am not willing to put more commitment into relationships than the other person is willing to put in, at least not anymore, not in my thirties.
Like you, one of the active differences is sex (but possibly for slightly different reasons). I have sex with the person who commits to me, to being there for me every day, to moving cross-country with me, to compromising and making joint decisions, to sharing finances. I do not have sex with my friends, partially because the commitment is more important to me than the sex.
I've had a hard time learning to live with the fact that my friends will always feel different levels of love and commitment than I do towards them. It took me all through my twenties to realize that I have *never* met anyone who felt the way I did about my friends. There are people in the polyamory community who insist that it's possible and that *they!*, really *they!* are different. But in the end I've never seen it happen--in the end it's all about the sex and the new shinies.
posted by digitalis at 1:54 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
Like you, one of the active differences is sex (but possibly for slightly different reasons). I have sex with the person who commits to me, to being there for me every day, to moving cross-country with me, to compromising and making joint decisions, to sharing finances. I do not have sex with my friends, partially because the commitment is more important to me than the sex.
I've had a hard time learning to live with the fact that my friends will always feel different levels of love and commitment than I do towards them. It took me all through my twenties to realize that I have *never* met anyone who felt the way I did about my friends. There are people in the polyamory community who insist that it's possible and that *they!*, really *they!* are different. But in the end I've never seen it happen--in the end it's all about the sex and the new shinies.
posted by digitalis at 1:54 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
I can't say I have an answer to your question, but I can certainly say it's something that I've long pondered - you're not the only one! (Also, by the looks of the number of favourites, we're not the only two.)
That article about Boston Marriages was fascinating. Even as a straight eighteen year old male, I sympathised with much of the sentiment contained within.
I will be following this thread eagerly.
posted by PuGZ at 3:41 AM on August 21, 2007
That article about Boston Marriages was fascinating. Even as a straight eighteen year old male, I sympathised with much of the sentiment contained within.
I will be following this thread eagerly.
posted by PuGZ at 3:41 AM on August 21, 2007
romantic love includes an element of self-serving love as well, eros. Romantic love includes the desire to receive love back from the other in a way that does not involve a mutual arrangement or sacrifice of the self. In other words friendship would be a "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine." Romantic love would be more like "I'll scratch your back, if you blow me."
This is one of the more bizarre statements I've read here. To me, it's exactly the reverse; romantic love invariably involves sacrifice of the self (or at least the willingness for such sacrifice). Romantic love is "I'll scratch your back or blow you or fix you dinner, whatever will make you happy, because your happiness is the most important thing in the world to me." I'm pretty sure my definition is more common.
posted by languagehat at 6:45 AM on August 21, 2007 [7 favorites]
This is one of the more bizarre statements I've read here. To me, it's exactly the reverse; romantic love invariably involves sacrifice of the self (or at least the willingness for such sacrifice). Romantic love is "I'll scratch your back or blow you or fix you dinner, whatever will make you happy, because your happiness is the most important thing in the world to me." I'm pretty sure my definition is more common.
posted by languagehat at 6:45 AM on August 21, 2007 [7 favorites]
I find myself with a lot of confusion. The kind of love I feel for my boyfriend of 2 years does not seem very different from the way I feel towards a couple of my other very dear friends-- I ask myself, am I romantically drawn to all of them? None of them? Is there a different kind of love feeling out that will feel very different but I won't know until I find it?
My take, as someone who saw a lot of myself in what you wrote, is that there are people who will tell you "just wait til you find it!" but that has not been my personal experience so far, which is not at all a bad thing. I have a good number of friends and some super-close friends, both men and women. At various times in my life many of these super-close friends have been partner-types of one sort or another. We'd go on vacation together, visit family together, plan some of our futures together, etc. However, we weren't sleeping together (I'm sort of low on the libido scale, as you seem to be, though I do get pulled towards some people from time to time I'm often pretty take it or leave it about sex otherwise) and, as time went on, most of those people went on to form close pair-bonds with other people to do the vacation, family visiting, kid-having stuff. I'm still fairly close with most of them, but it's over more of a distance now. I occupy some oddish place in their past and sometimes present, not really an ex-girlfriend, not really "just" a friend, but it seems that since we mostly all agree on it, it doesn't need any more definition than that.
I had a long term boyfriend for many years and experienced the same feeling. I loved him and had definitely "chosen" him to be my partner, but I didn't feel that I loved him more or differently than other very close people in my life. The romantic love notion for me is more about the specialness that you invest in a chosen person as the one who you belong with, and not any particular mental state you have when you're with them that you just don't get with other people. So, to your question...
other than the sexual aspect, is there a difference between intense, intimate friendships and romantic relationships?
For me, the answer is "not really" except that in this culture the way that people are used to associating with each other (for partners) tends to prioritize one sex-based pair bond which can make people similar to you, and me, outliers of a sort. However, nothing is stopping you from defining your loves and desires however you wnt to, you just may have a hard time finding the right words to explain it to others.
posted by jessamyn at 6:52 PM on August 21, 2007 [4 favorites]
My take, as someone who saw a lot of myself in what you wrote, is that there are people who will tell you "just wait til you find it!" but that has not been my personal experience so far, which is not at all a bad thing. I have a good number of friends and some super-close friends, both men and women. At various times in my life many of these super-close friends have been partner-types of one sort or another. We'd go on vacation together, visit family together, plan some of our futures together, etc. However, we weren't sleeping together (I'm sort of low on the libido scale, as you seem to be, though I do get pulled towards some people from time to time I'm often pretty take it or leave it about sex otherwise) and, as time went on, most of those people went on to form close pair-bonds with other people to do the vacation, family visiting, kid-having stuff. I'm still fairly close with most of them, but it's over more of a distance now. I occupy some oddish place in their past and sometimes present, not really an ex-girlfriend, not really "just" a friend, but it seems that since we mostly all agree on it, it doesn't need any more definition than that.
I had a long term boyfriend for many years and experienced the same feeling. I loved him and had definitely "chosen" him to be my partner, but I didn't feel that I loved him more or differently than other very close people in my life. The romantic love notion for me is more about the specialness that you invest in a chosen person as the one who you belong with, and not any particular mental state you have when you're with them that you just don't get with other people. So, to your question...
other than the sexual aspect, is there a difference between intense, intimate friendships and romantic relationships?
For me, the answer is "not really" except that in this culture the way that people are used to associating with each other (for partners) tends to prioritize one sex-based pair bond which can make people similar to you, and me, outliers of a sort. However, nothing is stopping you from defining your loves and desires however you wnt to, you just may have a hard time finding the right words to explain it to others.
posted by jessamyn at 6:52 PM on August 21, 2007 [4 favorites]
9.14.2557
something is better than nothing
I need to stop loving you.
Because you are a gay man. Completely, utterly, flamboyantly, raging, out-of-the-closet gay. And I am a woman. And you will never love me the way I love you.
From the first moment I met you I knew you was gay. Our first conversation was about the guy you had brought home the night before. Not that I would have needed to hear that to guess. It’s obvious. You’ve known you were gay since you were 12, every one else has known since you were 13. You’ve never been with a girl because you were never interested in them.
I knew all this from the first week I met you.
We’ve talked a million times about you being gay. We’ve talked about how your parents don’t accept you, how much trouble you had at school, your first time and everything in between. You are just so comfortable with yourself. With everything. You have completely accepted everything about yourself.
We started off being best friends. I would come over and you would dye my hair and we would perv on the guy from Moulin Rouge. We would go shopping and you would pick out clothes for me to wear and we would hit on the shop assistants if they were cute. We would shotgun boys and pretend to be dating if someone creepy was hitting on us. We would cook each other dinner, wake each other up in the morning for class and walk each other home. We would stay over at each others places and wear just our underwear to bed in the summer and get changed in front of each other.
Things were just easy. Comfortable. Simple. I had someone I could talk to when I had a bad day, someone to have fun with, someone to be crazy with and someone to motivate me in class. And I was the same for you.
In class we acted together, playing lovers, because we were so comfortable together already it made sense.
That’s when it started. I already knew you were an attractive guy. A really attractive guy. But I just had never thought about you like that. You were you, my gay best friend. When I had to look at you through the eyes of a lover…well I guess that was the first time I really saw you. You were more than attractive. You were hot. You were gorgeous. You were handsome.
Our sex scene. Wow. Just wow. I’m still not sure if you realised I was blushing, or if you thought I was just flushed. Your hands running all over my body, your lips on my lips, your hot breath on my neck. And you being gay meant you weren’t afraid to go the distance, to make it believable, because it was make-believe. Isn’t that strange? It’s easier to fake it if you know its fake. Anyway, because we were so comfortable, because you were gay, because we were actors, whatever the reason our sex scene was… intense to say the least. Believable would be an understatement.
On opening night you invited your boyfriend to see the show. We did amazingly, two curtain calls and all. It was the best feeling. Then I watched you run out of the green room and into his arms. Running your hands over his body. Putting your lips on his lips. Your breath on his neck. And then it hit me. I was jealous. I was totally, soul-consumingly, heart-breakingly jealous. Over you and him. My gay best friend and his boyfriend.
I realised I liked you. I really liked you.
I thought it would go away. I was probably just feeling this way because of the show, all the extra practice time we had been putting in. I mean, I was pretending to love you for hours a day for weeks, it was bound to get caught up with my normal feelings eventually, right? Which meant that, after a couple of weeks, it would fade and things would be normal right? Right.
So I acted as if nothing was different, went on with the show then gave myself some space for a couple of weeks, just to be safe. Once I was sure I couldn’t have feelings for you anymore I sent you a text, asked you if you wanted to hang out. You said yes! You had missed me! That almost stopped me because I was so happy that you had missed me… but no, they were just friendship feelings, you’re my best friend of course I would be happy that you missed me. You were at home right this moment with your boyfriend would I like to come over? Yes of course I would. So I went. And there you were, smiling at me like, giving me the tightest hug, kissing me on the cheek. And there was your boyfriend, sitting on the couch. And then you went back to him, held his hand and patted the couch next to you, indicating I should sit.
I couldn’t breathe. I had to get out of there. I made up some excuse, I don’t even know what it was, it can’t have been very good. But I couldn’t stay in there. Not with you holding his hand, not with you looking at him the way you do, not with you kissing him. I couldn’t do it.
I ran. I ran and I ran until I couldn’t run anymore. Then I sat. And I cried and cried and cried. I got home, I’m not sure how. I didn’t care. I didn’t care about anything.
I was in love with someone who I have less than 0% of a chance with.
I was in love with my gay best friend.
Not just a crush, not just a physical attraction, but love. Love.
With you.
It’s been three months since then. Nothings changed. He told me last night that he thinks he is in love with his boyfriend. And I smiled and gushed over their last romantic date and told him how happy I was for him.
I’ve decided that I just have to accept that I am in love with someone that I will never have.
I’ve gotten pretty good at faking it, at making up fake guys so that he doesn’t notice that I haven’t given a guy a second look since our performance, helping him plan dates for him and his boyfriend, perving on guys that I guess are cute.
I still can’t see him with his boyfriend. That’s too hard. But I don’t think he’s noticed that whenever his boyfriend appears I disappear. He doesn’t notice a whole lot of anything else when his boyfriend is around.
He tells me about all the romantic things they do together, plays me “their song”, tells me their intimate details, asks for my opinion on what he should wear to their next date and every thing else in between.
I’m his best friend. In love with him or not. And that means I have a role to play. I have to be there for him. Whether it’s killing me or not. Because I am his best friend and I would do anything for him. Just like he would do anything for me.
I’m under no delusion that I could “turn him” or anything silly like that. I don’t want to break up his relationship, it makes him so happy. I don’t expect anything to ever happen.
But that doesn’t stop me from wishing it would. That doesn’t stop me from holding onto our hugs for a little longer, touching the spot where he kissed my cheek, reading over his texts.
Because even if I am his best friend and certain things are expected of me I still love him.
So this is my compromise. Pretending when I’m feeling low, accepting it when I’m not.
This way I can be in love with him and be his best friend.
It’s not ideal but it’s the best I can think of.
He is happy, ignorant, but happy. And that makes me happy.
He’s my best friend. I love him and he loves me. It might not be in the same way but he loves me with everything he’s got which is something. And something is better than nothing.
And at least when I’m upset I can call him and he will tell me I am amazing and beautiful and he loves me and would I like him to come over to keep me company and cuddle me all night?
two people in love
I am writing to say that I am sorry. I’m sorry because I know what it’s like to feel deeply for someone who feels lightly for you. I understand the unrelenting stirring in your stomach when you see them. The deceiving optimism when you think “maybe this time they’ll realize they want me too,” then feeling so foolish when it ends up being just like every other time. To think that maybe minor changes will win their affection. I’ll cut my hair. I’ll wear that shirt instead of this one. I’ll grow my hair out. To obsess over your shortcomings. To want to change yourself at all for someone because you think having them push your hair back and kiss your neck is worth it. I know what it’s like to think about a person when you’re alone in your bed knowing that if you could have anything it would be their company and to feel the emptiness in the space next to you. To go to a place you’ve never been with them before but it reminds you of them anyway because you feel happy there. To go through scenarios in your head where everything goes right, where you say all the right things and you can feel them loving you back and the heavy sting when reality seems so far from that place. To think about the people they have loved and wonder why somebody else deserves something you want so badly. I know what it’s like to try to feel this way for anyone else. To kiss somebody with the nicest smile but at the end of it it’s not the one you want. You want the cynical one. I know exactly how it feels to ache. To feel deprived. To feel stupid. To know they never think about you when you can’t seem to stop picturing their face. I know what it’s like to think being in love is the fucking worst. To hope for nonchalance. To wish you could feel lightly. But it is not in our nature.
We are two people in love. We feel heavily but not for each other. I love him and you love me. It is not meant to be any other way, and from my very being I am sorry. I wish so badly that I could reciprocate your feelings. It would make so much sense.
9.13.2557
how to not run away from the ones that love you?
I’ve been with him for just over a year. I’m a runner by nature. As in,
when things start to get serious, when they start to feel permanent, I
leave the man I am with. This is one is pretty much perfect. Kind,
considerate, handsome, affectionate, generous, head over heels in love
with me. So in love with me, that it scares me. How can he get so
invested? He says he wants to build his life around me. The thought scares
me. I am down to earth, practical, a career first kind of girl. I wanted
to build my life around a place, a job, a career. Once all that was
settled, I figured I would meet someone and fall in love and maybe even
settle down. But love happened first. And now I am unsure whether to keep
it. Unsure because the longer I am with him, the more in love with me he
is, and all the while I am not sure if I will stay here. Maybe I’ll
travel, maybe I’ll go to grad school, maybe I’ll take a job across the
continent or even the world. I am unsure if he fits into those plans or
not. And because I’m afraid, because he is blameless, I have started
picking little fights, being stand-offish, secretly hoping to send him
over the edge and force him to break up with me, because I’m too cowardly
to be the bad guy. But I can’t push him away like the others, he sees
through it, and holds tight. It fills me with happiness and breaks my
heart all at the same time.
So to the people that are like me, and run away when they get scared of
the intensity of their feelings or the feelings of the one they’re with,
what do I do? Did you regret running away? Or was it better for you in the
long run, and less hurtful to the person you left?
To the people that got left behind, do you wish he or she had stayed? Or
was leaving you the best thing they ever did for you in the end?
I just want to put it out there that it’s not that I feel I don’t deserve
to be loved. I’m just not sure if this is the time or place to be in so
deep. I am afraid how madly and selflessly he loves me. It’s like I’m his
air or something. It’s frightening, but thrilling. But can you love too much?
9.12.2557
How to Make a Female Friend Love You
1
Don't show too much interest in her, because she will lose all the attraction for you. I assume that you already did this because you are in the friendship zone. So from now on you should not always be available for her, call her too much, and so on. You should live your life, instead of following her everywhere(because you will look like a needy person, and girls don't like that). The easier a woman can get a man, the less she will be interested in that man. So play hard to get!
2
You should not seek approval from her, instead you should act with indifference. When you go out with her you should choose the place, the table where the two of you should stay and so on. Show her that you are a real man!
3
You should not listen to her problems because you will surely remain only a friend, you will be like her female friends. Instead you should tease her and what I mean by this is to make her laugh while maintaining a high status. When she brings up her problems to you you should say something like "Is this something you want to solve or only to talk about?" and if she says "only to talk about" then reply like this "Then go and talk with your female friends."
4
You should always act with self-respect and have high expectation. Don't act fake or do something you don't want just because this girl asked you and you love her. Just be yourself! If a woman wants something she will act upset just to get that and if you will do everything for her, she will keep you as a friend only and go out with other guys.
5
Tease her more. If she says "It's cold!" reply to her "I know that you want me to hug you!", or if she says "Time to go to home", respond like this "I am not coming home with you yet", or "time to go to bed", say to her "you already want me to go with you in bed?". Everything you will say should be funny, but you must have a serious face and you will have a much better effect. And you can find millions of similar examples of teasing her. If she is getting upset, let her see that it doesn't affect you to much, and she will learn her lesson and she will not get upset the next time. Say things like "I don't think our relationship will go anywhere" or "I don't think this will work", "you like me", "you are only a friend to me", and so you can turn this situation in your favour.
6
Don't be jealous when she is speaking to other guys, because you will only show her that you feel inferior to other guys that she is talking. Instead you should, speak and flirt with other girls and maybe she will became more attentive at you, and afraid of losing you.
7
After a while you will notice clues from her if she is falling for you. For example: If she is always orienting her body towards you, always touching you more than just in a friendly way etc.
8
So as I told you in the above steps you should first keep her interested in you and only THEN the emotions should do the work.
9
And finally after you know she is falling for you , you can make her kiss you on the lips. How? Simply say to her "You probably are not such a good kisser" this will set a challenge in her mind, and women love challenges. This will do magic for her. Then tell her "close your eyes" and get closer to her like you would kiss her, but don't do it yet. Another magic move, that will make her desire you much more. Eventually you will get a kiss.9.10.2557
What Is Love?
Why Do We Ask, “What Is Love?”
Whenever we ask, “What is love?” it’s usually because a) we’re unsure if a certain special someone really loves us, or b) because a certain special someone just accused us of not really loving them.
When we are truly engaged in giving and receiving love, we don’t ponder such philosophical questions. It’s only when something is lacking that we begin to analyze and contemplate what that thing actually is. For example, nobody sits down to a full meal and asks, “What is a pastrami sandwich?”
It’s only when something is lacking that we begin to analyze and contemplate what that thing actually isSo, if we’re even asking the question, “What is love?” it probably means that we don’t feel completely loved, or that someone doesn’t feel completely loved by us.
But since we’re asking, let’s try to answer the question.
“Am I Loved?” Vs. “Do I Love?”
The two scenarios that usually cause us to contemplate “What is love?” give meaning to the question. Either we wonder, “Am I loved?” or we ask, “Do I love?”
It is easier to first address the “What is love?” question in terms of the love we feel coming toward us. If we understand how to recognize when we are being loved, we can also learn to recognize our love for another.
When we are loved, we tend to feel it intuitively in our guts. But how does it work? Is there an extrasensory perception in the heart that is able to read the feelings in another person’s heart?
In fact, it’s really not that ethereal or supernatural. On the contrary, it’s pretty practical and down-to-earth. Our hearts take cues from our senses. Everything we see, hear, taste, touch or smell teaches us about our universe. We don’t need to contemplate or ask questions. Our sensory organs report to our brains, and our brains interpret the data and send the report to our hearts. So, if we see a loving smile, hear loving words, or feel a loving touch, the brain processes this information and concludes, “Hey, we are being loved right now!”
In short, when we are loved, there is tangible proof. It’s not an abstract thought or feeling, it’s concrete and evidenced. As King Solomon wrote in his book of Proverbs (27:19), “As water reflects a man’s face back to him, so is the heart of one man to another.” This means, when you are treated with love, your heart feels that love.
Love is an Action
Now we can address the second part of the “What is love” quandary—how to know if we love someone else?
The answer is straightforward. When we behave lovingly towards someone, it means we love that person.
When we ask a question like “What is love?” we assume that we’re trying to define an abstract concept similar to “What is freedom?” or “What is good fortune?” But truthfully, love is not a concept. It’s an action.
To ask, “What is love?” is like asking, “What is running?” or “What is swimming?” If you’ve ever seen someone run or swim, you know exactly what running and swimming entail.
In order for love to be real love, it has to be expressed as an actionThe Hebrew word for love, ahavah, reveals this true definition of love, for the word ahavah is built upon the root consonants h‑v, which means “to give.” In order for love to be real love, it has to be expressed as an action. If you love your beloved, then you must show it. By the same token, if you are loved, that will show, too. You will recognize it by the way you are treated.
G‑d Teaches Us How to Love
G‑d commands us (Deut. 6:5), “And you shall love the L‑rd your G‑d.” This precept leads us to voice the age-old question, “How can we be commanded to feel a feeling?” Either you feel it or you don’t, right?
An answer offered by our tradition explains that we are not being ordered to feel a feeling in the abstract sense. Rather, the command is for us to behave lovingly. In this light, “And you shall love,” actually means, “You shall perform acts of love.”
This is the true test: action, deeds, performance.
Feelings can be deceptive. Sometimes, what we perceive as love may in fact be another emotion. But actions cannot be mistaken. So, rather than ask, “What is love?” we must ask, “Do I perform acts of love for my beloved?” and “Does my beloved perform acts of love for me?”
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Another piece of this puzzle is the lumping together of love and sex- historically, this was not always the case. I think the fact that we are expected to love the people we have sex with (and conversely not have sex with people we don't love) muddies the waters to a degree that the question you are asking exists. In my experience, the best strategy in terms of maximizing fulfillment/answering this question on some level is to interact with and enjoy each relationship on its own merits relative only to itself. Obviously be mindful of how those relationships interact with your others (i.e. if one person requires monogamy be mindful of it, etc.).
Also, I'm not one of those free love advocates, but I think its important to challenge our assumptions that the things society hands us are necessarily the way the world is.
posted by zennoshinjou at 10:23 AM on August 20, 2007 [6 favorites]